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-   -   Atlantis-Tartessos in Donana? (http://forum.grenzwissen.de/showthread.php?t=21291)

Rainer W. Kühne 29.01.2015 15:58

Atlantis-Tartessos in Donana?
 
My view that the capital of Atlantis/Tartessos was situated on the Pacil de Cardales within the Donana National Park in Spain [1] attracted worldwide media interest [2, 3, 4]. A geological and archaeological expedition was performed in order to test this view. A National Geographic documentary film reported in 2011 about this expedition [4]. My view renewed and intensified the geological interest in the search for ancient tsunamis in the Donana National Park [5-14]. The results of the geological test were published in research journals [12-14], those of the archaeological test in a book [15].

Evidence of four ancient tsunamis was found which destroyed and recreated parts of what is now the Donana National Park.

The first tsunami occurred about 2100 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the El Abalario dune system. This sand formed the Carrizosa-Vetalarena chenier and the Veta de los Acebuches chenier. Human-made artifacts such as flintstone, treated bone and pottery sherds were found within the Carrizosa-Vetalarena chenier and provide evidence that the tsunami destroyed a human settlement on the El Abalario dune system.

The second tsunami occurred about 1600 BC. It formed the Marilopez chenier by sand from the Donana spit.

The third tsunami occurred about 1200 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the La Algaida spit and a nearby human settlement. It formed the Veta de los Tarajes chenier.

The fourth tsunami occurred about 200 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the La Algaida spit and a pre-Roman sanctuary on it. The tsunami created the Vetalengua spit and the Las Nuevas beach ridge by sand from the Donana spit.

Aerial photos, magnetometry and an archaeological survey provide evidence of a rectangular building of 50 meters length and 40 meters width in the southern part of the Horno del Mal Tiempo. Numerous pottery sherds which typologically date from the Islamic period (8th to 13th century AD) and two statuettes out of limestone were detected within this rectangular form.
Electrical resistivity tomography provides evidence of a quasi-periodical artifical form three to five meters below the soil of the southern part of the Pacil de Cardales. Ground-penetrating radar and aerial photos provide evidence of a nearby rectangular form. Aerial photos provide evidence of four rectangular forms in the northern part of the Pacil de Cardales.

[1] R. W. Kühne, Antiquity 78, 300 (2004).
http://www.antiquity.ac.uk/Projgall/kuhne/
[2] M. Shermer, Scientific American 291, 4 (October 2004) p. 19.
http://www.nature.com/scientificamer...can1004-42.pdf
[3] J. Gill, Andalucia - A Cultural History (Oxford University Press, 2008), pp. 19-20.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195376102
[4] anonymous, New Scientist 204, 2736 (28 November 2009) p. 42.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-atlantis.html
[5] F. Ruiz et al., Rivista Italiana di Paleontologia e Stratigrafia 114 (2008) 145-154.
http://rabida.uhu.es/dspace/handle/10272/6589
[6] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez and C. M. Yanez-Camacho, Marine Geology 254 (2008) 187-196.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322708002041
[7] J. Rodriguez-Vidal et al., Marine Geology 263 (2009) 120-122.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322709000814
[8] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Marine Geology 263 (2009) 123-125.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322709000802
[9] J. Rodriguez-Vidal et al., Quaternary International 242 (2011) 201-212.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...40618211000528
[10] R. Perianez and J. M. Abril, Journal of Marine Systems 111-112 (2013) 223-234.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...24796312002333
[11] J. M. Abril et al., Journal of Archaeological Science 40 (2013) 4499-4508.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...05440313002422
[12] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Geomorphology 219 (2014) 126-140.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69555X14002475
[13] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Quaternary Research 83 (2015) 24-40.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3358941400101X
[14] G. Jimenez-Moreno et al., The Holocene 25 (2015).
http://hol.sagepub.com/content/early...65955.abstract
[15] R. A. Freund, Digging Through History (Rowman and Littlefield, 2012) pp. 76-91.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1442208821

Internet-Links to researchers associated with the geological, archaeological and historical work:

Prof. Joaquin Rodriguez-Vidal
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joaquin_Vidal2

Prof. Manuel Abad
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Manuel_ABAD

Prof. Luis Miguel Caceres Puro
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Luis_Caceres_Puro

Prof. Francisco Ruiz Munoz
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Francisco_Munoz24

Prof. Antonio Rodriguez-Ramirez
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...riguez-Ramirez

Prof. Sebastian Celestino Perez
http://csic.academia.edu/Sebasti%C3%...tinoP%C3%A9rez

Prof. Gonzalo Jimenez-Moreno
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...Jimenez-Moreno

Prof. Raul Perianez Rodriguez
http://personal.us.es/rperianez/

Prof. Jose Maria Abril Hernandez
http://personal.us.es/jmabril/

Prof. Jose Luis Escacena Carrasco
http://departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/w...sonal_jlec.htm

Prof. Richard A. Freund
http://www.hartford.edu/A_and_S/depa...ty/freund.aspx

Prof. Philip Paul Reeder
http://www.duq.edu/academics/faculty/philip-reeder-phd

Dr. Victorino Mayoral Herrera
http://csic.academia.edu/VictorinoMayoralHerrera

Dr. Enrique Cerrillo Cuenca
http://csic.academia.edu/EnriqueCerrilloCuenca

Dr. Juan Jose R. Villarias-Robles
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...llarias-Robles

Dr. Jose Antonio Lopez-Saez
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...nio_Lopez-Saez

Dr. Jose Noel Perez-Asensio
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose_Perez-Asensio

Dr. Rainer Walter Kühne
http://scholar.google.de/citations?h...r=W_OUOaEAAAAJ
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rainer_Kuehne
http://independent.academia.edu/RainerKuehne

targ3t 30.01.2015 09:54

sind wir hier in murica :confused:

was steht da ,fuer jmd der auf .de ,de erwartet

gruss michl

SchwarzerFuerst 30.01.2015 10:12

Häh??????????
 
Hi, ich kann ja Englisch, aber diese Art von Fachenglisch ist mehr als eine Herausforderung...:eek:.....oder anders gesagt:
Ich würde es begrüßen, wenn man, ohne sich in den Text einarbeiten zu müssen, beim Überfliegen wenigstens ansatzweise erkennen könnte, um was es da eigentlich geht....... :D
Bei mir drängt sich da nur die Frage auf, was haben Tsunamis mit Atlantis-Tartessos in Donana zu tun und was soll da postuliert bzw. bewiesen werden?

Torsten Migge 02.02.2015 07:33

Normaler Weise halte ich mich ziehmlich zurück, wenn mir der Durchblick fehlt. Aber bei diesem Post (eingangspost) habe ich den Eindruck, als wäre er per Past & Copy hier gelandet. Vor allem bei den diversen Links - vorzugsweise in englisch - zeigt sich, dass einiges nicht mehr aktuell ist! Nämlich gleich der erste Verweis/Link, zu einer Seite von Antiquity mit einem (angeblichen?) Text des Erstellers dieses Threat's, der ins leere führt :mad: ;)

Saludos!

Rainer W. Kühne 04.02.2015 12:21

corrected links
 
My view that the capital of Atlantis/Tartessos was situated on the Pacil de Cardales within the Donana National Park in Spain [1] attracted worldwide media interest [2-4]. A geological and archaeological expedition was performed in order to test this view. The National Geographic documentary film "Finding Atlantis" reported in 2011 about this expedition. My view renewed and intensified the geological interest in the search for ancient tsunamis in the Donana National Park [5-14]. The results of the geological test were published in research journals [12-14], those of the archaeological test in a book [15].

Evidence of four ancient tsunamis was found which destroyed and recreated parts of what is now the Donana National Park.

The first tsunami occurred about 2100 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the El Abalario dune system. This sand formed the Carrizosa-Vetalarena chenier and the Veta de los Acebuches chenier. Human-made artifacts such as flintstone, treated bone and pottery sherds were found within the Carrizosa-Vetalarena chenier and provide evidence that the tsunami destroyed a human settlement on the El Abalario dune system.

The second tsunami occurred about 1600 BC. It formed the Marilopez chenier by sand from the Donana spit.

The third tsunami occurred about 1200 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the La Algaida spit and a nearby human settlement. It formed the Veta de los Tarajes chenier.

The fourth tsunami occurred about 200 BC. It destroyed the southern part of the La Algaida spit and a pre-Roman sanctuary on it. The tsunami created the Vetalengua spit and the Las Nuevas beach ridge by sand from the Donana spit.

Aerial photos, magnetometry and an archaeological survey provide evidence of a rectangular building of 50 meters length and 40 meters width in the southern part of the Horno del Mal Tiempo. Numerous pottery sherds which typologically date from the Islamic period (8th to 13th century AD) and two statuettes out of limestone were detected within this rectangular form.

Electrical resistivity tomography provides evidence of a quasi-periodical artifical form three to five meters below the soil of the southern part of the Pacil de Cardales. Ground-penetrating radar and aerial photos provide evidence of a nearby rectangular form. Aerial photos provide evidence of four rectangular forms in the northern part of the Pacil de Cardales.

[1] R. W. Kühne, Antiquity 78, 300 (2004).
http://antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/kuhne300/
[2] M. Shermer, Scientific American 291, 4 (October 2004) p. 19.
http://www.nature.com/scientificamer...can1004-42.pdf
[3] J. Gill, Andalucia - A Cultural History (Oxford University Press, 2008), pp. 19-20.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195376102
[4] anonymous, New Scientist 204, 2736 (28 November 2009) p. 42.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-atlantis.html
[5] F. Ruiz et al., Rivista Italiana di Paleontologia e Stratigrafia 114 (2008) 145-154.
http://rabida.uhu.es/dspace/handle/10272/6589
[6] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez and C. M. Yanez-Camacho, Marine Geology 254 (2008) 187-196.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322708002041
[7] J. Rodriguez-Vidal et al., Marine Geology 263 (2009) 120-122.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322709000814
[8] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Marine Geology 263 (2009) 123-125.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...25322709000802
[9] J. Rodriguez-Vidal et al., Quaternary International 242 (2011) 201-212.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...40618211000528
[10] R. Perianez and J. M. Abril, Journal of Marine Systems 111-112 (2013) 223-234.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...24796312002333
[11] J. M. Abril et al., Journal of Archaeological Science 40 (2013) 4499-4508.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...05440313002422
[12] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Geomorphology 219 (2014) 126-140.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...69555X14002475
[13] A. Rodriguez-Ramirez et al., Quaternary Research 83 (2015) 24-40.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3358941400101X
[14] G. Jimenez-Moreno et al., The Holocene 25 (2015).
http://hol.sagepub.com/content/early...65955.abstract
[15] R. A. Freund, Digging Through History (Rowman and Littlefield, 2012) pp. 76-91.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1442208821

Internet links to researchers associated with the geological, archaeological and historical work:

Prof. Joaquin Rodriguez-Vidal
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joaquin_Vidal2

Prof. Manuel Abad de los Santos
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Manuel_ABAD

Prof. Luis Miguel Caceres Puro
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Luis_Caceres_Puro

Prof. Francisco Ruiz Munoz
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Francisco_Munoz24

Prof. Antonio Rodriguez-Ramirez
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...riguez-Ramirez

Prof. Sebastian Celestino Perez
http://csic.academia.edu/Sebasti%C3%...tinoP%C3%A9rez

Prof. Gonzalo Jimenez-Moreno
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...Jimenez-Moreno

Prof. Raul Perianez Rodriguez
http://personal.us.es/rperianez/

Prof. Jose Maria Abril Hernandez
http://personal.us.es/jmabril/

Prof. Jose Luis Escacena Carrasco
http://departamento.us.es/dpreyarq/w...sonal_jlec.htm

Prof. Richard A. Freund
http://www.hartford.edu/A_and_S/depa...ty/freund.aspx

Prof. Philip Paul Reeder
http://www.duq.edu/academics/faculty/philip-reeder-phd

Dr. Victorino Mayoral Herrera
http://csic.academia.edu/VictorinoMayoralHerrera

Dr. Enrique Cerrillo Cuenca
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...errillo_Cuenca
http://csic.academia.edu/EnriqueCerrilloCuenca

Dr. Juan Jose R. Villarias-Robles
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...llarias-Robles

Dr. Jose Antonio Lopez-Saez
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...nio_Lopez-Saez

Dr. Jose Noel Perez-Asensio
http://scholar.google.de/citations?u...J&hl=de&oi=sra
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose_Perez-Asensio

Dr. Rainer Walter Kühne
http://scholar.google.de/citations?h...r=W_OUOaEAAAAJ
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rainer_Kuehne
http://independent.academia.edu/RainerKuehne

SchwarzerFuerst 04.02.2015 12:29

Was wollen uns diese Texte sagen?
 
Zitat:

Zitat von Rainer W. Kühne (Beitrag 201803)
My view

Ich würde mich immer noch über eine kurze Zusammenfassung in Deutsch freuen. :D Für mich wirkt dein Beitrag wie ein Buch, daß du hier auf den Tisch knallst und dann dazu sogleich unsere Meinung hören willst, als hätten wir uns schon längere Zeit damit beschäftigt. :eek:

perfidulo 04.02.2015 23:09

Zitat:

Zitat von SchwarzerFuerst (Beitrag 201805)
Ich würde mich immer noch über eine kurze Zusammenfassung in Deutsch freuen. :D Für mich wirkt dein Beitrag wie ein Buch, daß du hier auf den Tisch knallst und dann dazu sogleich unsere Meinung hören willst, als hätten wir uns schon längere Zeit damit beschäftigt. :eek:

In einem der angegebenen Links
http://antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/kuhne300/
ist eine Adresse in Deutschland samt E-Mail angegeben.

Ich würde das auch eher auf Deutsch diskutieren. Noch lieber auch Esperanto natürlich.


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